|
|
Post by bobnotch on Sept 12, 2011 11:36:43 GMT -8
Interesting - I did not think there was a different part listed for earlier cars - I cannot see an alternative part number in the book/microfiche I have. I have a set of Simon's seals fitted to my 1968 344 and would say the fit is pretty spot on, but I know the door/window gaps are consistent on this car. I was also able to trim the extra length on the B post to eliminate a small amount of daylight visible where it joins the lower door sea and scraper. In the heavy rain at GMH I did not get any leaks in this area! From memory there is a small amount of adjustment on a moveable plate at the top of the B post which might help. Well, the seals that Simon sells are part number 343 845 211B and 212B. This suggests that there are 2 versions previous, meaning 211A and 212 A, along with no sufix. In talking with Scott Taylor who has an earlier parts book to mine, we have determined that the 62's got the no letter version of the seals. When the door glass size change happened for 63, Karmann made new seals for that glass change. These got the sufix of A (first redesign), and were used thru 66, with the 67 and later cars getting the B version sufix (2nd design change). Yes, the B post can adjust some, but not all of it can be had here. There's also adjustments of the wing window (fore and aft, along with in and out at the top, and there is the same with the rear of the door glass having these same adjustments (in and out at the top). I hope this helps, and clears up some of the confusion. |
|
|
|
Post by Mark Poulton on Sept 17, 2011 13:53:09 GMT -8
The B suffix is what my 1982 fiche shows and mid 60's parts book. Early parts books would only show what was current at that point in time. VW obviously produced a no suffix and A version at some earlier stage but my understanding of the VW parts system is that when the improved part was introduced, it took the next suffix number and superseded the earlier number. If the earlier part was still needed then it would have remained listed with the chassis number details alongside. Sometimes a parts kit would be offered to adapt earlier parts to later specification if needed.
Looking at this logically whilst I am aware that early cars had a different vent frame/side glass arrangement, the physical opening from A post to B post and roof alignment where the seal fits did not vary through the life of the car.
Therefore I suspect that the cross section or lips of the seal changed through early operational experience until the B version was introduced and standardized for all T34's. If the B version does not fit some type 34's it would suggest that adjustments elsewhere would help to correct this-as hand built cars, the adjustments made at production stage were quite subtle but significant, my own experience with fitting NOS door hinges bears this out!
|
|
|
|
Post by bobnotch on Sept 25, 2011 12:08:43 GMT -8
Therefore I suspect that the cross section or lips of the seal changed through early operational experience until the B version was introduced and standardized for all T34's. If the B version does not fit some type 34's it would suggest that adjustments elsewhere would help to correct this-as hand built cars, the adjustments made at production stage were quite subtle but significant, my own experience with fitting NOS door hinges bears this out! This is exactly what changed ( the seal profile). The seal style changed from being "tubular" to now having lips. When I used the "lipped" style seal, my side glass wouldn't go all the way to the top (unless the door was open), and then it would drop inside the "lips" and not seal. This is unexceptable to me, especially when the old 47 year old seal fit better than the new one. I even posted pics here showing the difference between the OE seals, versus the new seals. My car is a 64, so this was why I went with the "low light" Ghia seals. At least they fit better, and actually seal. The later style seals that Simon sells, are correct for your 68. I had already tried adjusting the glass in several places, but couldn't get it to work with the new style seals. This was the reason I looked elsewhere for a seal that would work (after asking here first IF anybody had run into this issue before). All of my door gaps are good, and the doors line up correctly, since I rebuilt my hinges, so I knew that wasn't the problem. Also, the old seals fit just like they did when I removed them from the car. I'll dig up my pics, and post them again here. |
|
|
|
Post by bobnotch on Sept 25, 2011 12:22:15 GMT -8
Here's my post from May 29th 2011. Since I'm not having any luck with trying to get some answers, I'll post some pics of the issues I'm dealing with. The first couple are of the right side. I re-installed the old seals to check the fit.    These still appear to seal, but are very dried out. These are of the left side with the "new" seals.    As you can see, they don't seal up the glass (with it forced out at the top), and you can't roll up the window with the door closed. These are a comparison shot of the seals. My old seals are of a "tube" shape (for lack of a better description), while the "new" seals are of a "flap" design. My biggest issue is where the door glass and the 1/4 window meet, as the glass is riding on top of the seal.    Is this a case of me needing regular early t-14 coupe seals to fix this problem, or is it something else. Right now I can see that the "new" seals aren't going to work.  Thanks for any help, as it's much appreciated. |
|
|
|
Post by Mark Poulton on Sept 25, 2011 13:49:59 GMT -8
Bob
Looking at your photos there definitely looks to be an issue on the left side - the door window should not be that close to the B post chrome trim. I know that the early cars 62 and perhaps 63 had different side glass/vent wing parts but did not think this continued to 64, hence why I thought the B seal should be OK for your car. I have sold over 10 of these seals from KGOC stocks and as far as I know there have been no issues reported back even for earlier cars - easily the best repro seal for this location that has been available in the last 20 years to my knowledge. I apologise for my ignorance if you have mentioned the details previously, but do you know for certain that the door/vent wing/side glass/hinges are those it left the factory with? I know that when I fitted a replacement early glass in error to one of my 68 cars it did not fit at all well although the door fit and hinges were fine! Adjusting the vent wing frame, the rear runner and the stops on the regulator could not compensate and I presume you have tried all these. If you want to take some measurements around the opening I can compare them with mine.
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by bobnotch on Sept 29, 2011 7:12:50 GMT -8
Bob Looking at your photos there definitely looks to be an issue on the left side - the door window should not be that close to the B post chrome trim. I know that the early cars 62 and perhaps 63 had different side glass/vent wing parts but did not think this continued to 64, hence why I thought the B seal should be OK for your car. I have sold over 10 of these seals from KGOC stocks and as far as I know there have been no issues reported back even for earlier cars - easily the best repro seal for this location that has been available in the last 20 years to my knowledge. I apologise for my ignorance if you have mentioned the details previously, but do you know for certain that the door/vent wing/side glass/hinges are those it left the factory with? I know that when I fitted a replacement early glass in error to one of my 68 cars it did not fit at all well although the door fit and hinges were fine! Adjusting the vent wing frame, the rear runner and the stops on the regulator could not compensate and I presume you have tried all these. If you want to take some measurements around the opening I can compare them with mine. Mark Well, I've moved past it. I'm using low light Ghia seals for the door tops, and another style seal for the rear of the door. Like I said previously, I had adjusted the glass, the rubber, and everything in between to no avail. The low light Ghia seals are working just fine for me. I didn't show pics of the right side, but I had the same issue on that side as well (with the seals I got from Simon). The above pics of the right side are with my old dried out seals, which did fit great, and using the old left side seals fit good as well. I think a lot of it was the newer profile, and the "upright" piece being either too thick or too hard of a rubber compound that didn't flex. I know I've mentioned it here several times, that I have a 64, and I'm using the same parts that came with the car, when I got it. Like I also mentioned before, Simon told me he's sold over 200 of these seals, and never got a report back either, until I mentioned my issues (on T-34.com), then several others started talking about their issues too. There are still some of us trying to find a different "upright" seal to use though (those of us with pre-66 cars), since this is a sticking point that others are having problems with too. |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Bull on Nov 3, 2011 6:08:21 GMT -8
Well, I finally have some money to spend on the Ghia so I emailed Simon asking what he had and how much to ship to the US. I also asked him if he planned on making early versions of the roof to window seals since Bob had issues with his '64. This was his reply:  So if I want new seals I have to pay the ISP price. |
|
|
|
Post by Lee Hedges on Nov 3, 2011 7:07:44 GMT -8
Try telling him you've had negative experiences with ISP West and don't want to deal with them. You'd be OK with paying the more expensive shipping to get the parts directly from him.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobnotch on Nov 10, 2011 14:52:41 GMT -8
Try telling him you've had negative experiences with ISP West and don't want to deal with them. You'd be OK with paying the more expensive shipping to get the parts directly from him. That's what I'd tell him too, especially since ISP has a 200% mark up on the price of EACH seal. I realise Alex and Anthony have to make a profit, but within a couple of seals (at their price), you could pay for ALL the seals from Simon. I mean they're getting a 100 each for the front or rear window seals, and 75 each for the 2 side seals (not sold as a pair like Simon sells them). I paid 420 with shipping for his seals, directly from him, and thought it was a good price (150 of that was 3 day shipping, with 1 day spent in customs). |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Bull on Nov 13, 2011 5:32:29 GMT -8
Well he has essentially told me that he will not supply directly to US, only through ISP. He mentioned it being a big hassle dealing with shipping plus lots of emails asking and very few buying. He did tell me that he has a few small items on eBay. I ended up buying the front and rear turn signal seals from him. With exchange and shipping I still saved about 50% not getting them from ISP. I'm curious but have not asked ISP what they would charge for a full set of seals. They list the prices for individual items but put xxx.00 for a set. In other news, the US dollar is gaining on the Euro....  |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Bull on Jan 10, 2012 9:38:54 GMT -8
Finally got around to asking about the set. He quoted me $474 shipped to PA. That breaks it down to $118.50 each instead of the $150 he lists them individually on TheSamba. Unfortunately he didn't answer my question if I could get a deal on the front, rear, and pop-out window seals since Bob's experience tells me the door window seals won't fit. |
|
|
|
Post by Franck Boutier on Jan 10, 2012 10:12:37 GMT -8
Hi to all , I wonder if I would not have the same problem as Bob with the door seals on my 65' T34.  It seems not possible to close the door when the window is at the top position. So here's my question : Does someone did a correct fit with the doors seals comming from Simon , please ? Pictures would be great ! Thank you very much. Franck. |
|
|
|
Post by Brad Bull on Jan 10, 2012 11:49:16 GMT -8
What Bob was saying is the seal profile that Simon made (and ISP West is selling) is for '66 and up, so your '65 will most likely have the same problem as his '64. I got an answer from ISP....no. I either buy the whole set or pay individual prices. So I can either pay $450 for the 3 items I want, or pay $474 for 4 items and try to sell the door window seals to someone else. Guess I'm going to stew on that one for a while.  |
|
|
|
Post by Simon Kelley on Feb 9, 2012 3:14:34 GMT -8
Just to set the record straight.
First let me start by reminding you of all the problems in the past with some guy called POP in thailand that for a brief time 5-6 years ago, supplied through the T34 Forum. Prior to all this the T34 Forum had the chance to supply from me but they went with POP, who bought my product and put them with his own. Well he disapeared, he did manage to supply many people but also let a few down.
Scince the last 4 years the Forum has kindly passed on any interest in my products to me. Thank you.
T34 Register/ club in the Uk have been buying in bulk products to sell to their member for many years. as i used to travel arround a lot it was impossible for me to give a good delivery.
I am and with my partners, primarily a manufacturer of products until the last 2 years when i have returned to the Uk as my Family moved away from Thailand and are now back in the UK.
Drop shipping - i guess you have all heard of it - well I was offered by the forum to sell my parts through the T34 Forum .. that to me is drop shipping , and it doesnt work very well when its International.
The contract for purchases is allways better all round when they reside in the same country.
I previously suppiled Status VW in the UK , but havent done for more than 3 years, WHY - because he left me with a $10,000 order at the port which i ended up paying for and we have never spoken scince. the products that he has left is what he bought from that time.
As I previously supplied rubber seals from thailand , and they are heavy. The shipping to the US was in the $190 region alone. In addition the customer would have no guarantees of delivery and no possiblity or returns.
Also I was contacted by email, on which many occasions the mail went into my junk mail, or i didnt get back to people very quickly
Scince ISP were prepared to purchase stock to supply in the US I granted them EXCLUSIVE rights to my products. It is actually for the Greater good, scince the customer and retailer are in the same country.
Any More questions or clarification I can be contacted here,
Maker sure you put something in the subject like VW T34 SEALS
simonkelley@hotmail.com
|
|
|
|
Post by bobnotch on Feb 9, 2012 12:35:33 GMT -8
Simon, I'm glad to see you here. I'm happy with my seals, and my purchase directly from you. My only issue was with the upper door seals, but I can't fault you on that, as you didn't know there was another style of seal. I've resolved my issue, and have moved on, like I said over on T-34.com (the T-34 Registry). Although I'd like to see a some one come up with a set of wing window seals (both parts) for less than 500 a side. I mean Karmann Ghia parts de gets 200 euros each just for the uprights. That's way too damn much in my case, and I'm betting others as well. |
|
Thanks for any help, as it's much appreciated.
So if I want new seals I have to pay the ISP price. 
